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IMPORTANT: 744v2 SP1 FMC On Approach Mode

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USN O6 View Drop Down
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    Posted: Oct-29-2015 at 7:21am
Hi All,
 
We previously posted that users of the iFly 747-400 simulation should read about On Approach mode while waiting for the release of SP1.  The following extract from the forthcoming Tutorial Addendum discusses On Approach mode, which must be understood in order to properly operate the aircraft when the SP is installed.
 

The FMC transitions to On Approach mode, which is not annunciated, when one of the following conditions are met:

 

1.  A VFR approach is created and the aircraft has sequenced the FAXXX, or the aircraft is enroute to a direct-to or intercept-to the RWYYY waypoint and is within 25 nm of the runway threshold

 

2.  A published instrument approach is selected and incorporated in the active flight plan and the    aircraft is two (2) nautical miles from the first waypoint in the APPROACH.  IMPORTANT:  This waypoint may be confirmed when the Approach (not the Approach transition) is selected as it is shown at on the CDU at LSK 6R.  This is the first approach waypoint in the airac.  If there is disagreement with a chart, be certain to use the airac defined waypoint, as it will be where the On Approach mode procedure will start.

 

3.  Air traffic control redirects the aircraft to a course direct to the Final Approach Fix (FAF) and the aircraft is on that course and is two (2) nautical miles from the FAF. 

 

 

The FMC transitions out of On Approach when any of the following occurs:

 

1.   TOGA is selected

2.   the aircraft lands

3.   the aircraft flies beyond the last waypoint in the approach (missed approach waypoint or runway) and the VNAV page title changes from "ACT xxxxxx DES" to "ACT END OF DES"

 

When the FMC is in On Approach mode:

the IAS/MACH window on the MCP can be opened and a command speed can be set while VNAV remains in the VNAV PTH descent; VNAV commands the set speed

the MCP altitude can be set above the aircraft altitude to be ready for a missed approach. VNAV continues to command a descent when the MCP altitude setting is at least 300 feet above the current aircraft altitude.

VNAV remains in VNAV PTH and continues to follow the descent path unless the aircraft accelerates to within 5 knots of the current flap placard speed and the aircraft is more than 150 feet above the path. In this case, VNAV PTH changes to VNAV SPD.

 

If the aircraft does not meet the On Approach conditions, the vertical mode will revert to VNAV SPD and then later automatically change to VNAV PTH when the ON Approach conditions are met.

 

This automatic change to VNAV PTH can come as a surprise for the crew!  When On Approach conditions are met, if the speed window is closed the CAB will move to the speed commanded by the FMC. This speed could be higher or lower than what was set in the MCP speed window, and may cause the A/T to apply a very large amount of thrust, thereby killing your fuel economy and most likely upsetting the folks in the back.

 

So the art of using speed intervene in the descent is to set a speed in the MCP window which is similar to what the FMC has programmed for the current situation – that speed may be seen on the CDU DES and/or LEGS pages.  This avoids the “large amount of thrust applied or removed scenario”.  When in the later stages of a descent, and just prior to flap extension, real world crews use speed intervene to give more control until the aircraft meets the On Approach mode conditions.

 

In addition to the conditions listed above, another method to determine if the aircraft is in the On Approach mode is the check the RNP value on PAGE 2 of the CDU POS REF page.  When the RNP value is 0.30 the aircraft is in the On Approach mode (assuming of course some other value was not manually entered!).

 

More to come. Smile 
Best,
Jim




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Swagger897 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swagger897 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct-29-2015 at 9:10am
Is this only for an RNAV approach for it to continue in VNAV?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote USN O6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct-29-2015 at 10:03am
Hi Jacob,
 
No, it is for all approaches flown with the automatics.
Best,
Jim




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swagger897 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct-29-2015 at 8:48pm
OHHHH OKAY!!!

I had to read it again, but now it makes sense. So it's sorta like the 737's approach too no?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote USN O6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct-29-2015 at 10:17pm
Actually, the 737NG is newer than the 744 and the FMC is significantly different.  With the SP, the 744 is much more "hands on" than the newer Boeing transport category aircraft during the DESCENT and APPROACH phases of flight.  The SP models the real world in this regard, and users of the simulation will need to carefully note the interaction of FLAP application, airspeed and VNAV logic.  Some retraining will most likely be needed in order to fly the aircraft correctly.  
So, more details to follow for the weekend. Smile
Best,
Jim




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jannier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct-30-2015 at 6:33pm
I made a video from 10 000ft down to ILS 28R at KSFO demonstrating the new VNAV, FLAP and "On Approach" mode logic. You will get an idea how I manage the Airspeed, Flaps, CAB and you will notice how the aircraft transitions between the various VNAV PTH, SPD and ALT modes.
I am not a professional pilot nor video photographer so bare with me if I made a few mistakes, even I had to re-learn the correct way to operate the 747-400, is far more hands on and interactive during the final stages of Descent, Approach and Landing.

For some odd reason the video recording has stutters in it but the actual flying is smooth, must the a clash between, my G-Sync monitor, FRAPS and YouTube.


Regards
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghiomkl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct-30-2015 at 7:05pm

Great, but what does she dive at the beginning of the turn (-2800 fps) and then looses speed towards the end (232 kts vs 240 set)?

Thanks

Ghiom

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jannier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct-30-2015 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by ghiomkl ghiomkl wrote:

Great, but what does she dive at the beginning of the turn (-2800 fps) and then looses speed towards the end (232 kts vs 240 set)?

Thanks

Ghiom

Because I was busy and you can hear the caution warning to tell me to retract the spoilers.

And descent rate of -2800ft is not a dive in the least, you have to remember we have turbulence you can see that, making a turn causes drag and nose to drop, and I aggravated it by having the spoiler up to long. The Tech Pilots have told us some interesting and hair raising 744 stories. This is clear case where I started to fall behind the aircraft, hence my disclaimer in my note with the video, You did not miss that?

Regards
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swagger897 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct-30-2015 at 7:19pm
Originally posted by Jannier Jannier wrote:

I made a video from 10 000ft down to ILS 28R at KSFO demonstrating the new VNAV, FLAP and "On Approach" mode logic. You will get an idea how I manage the Airspeed, Flaps, CAB and you will notice how the aircraft transitions between the various VNAV PTH, SPD and ALT modes.
I am not a professional pilot nor video photographer so bare with me if I made a few mistakes, even I had to re-learn the correct way to operate the 747-400, is far more hands on and interactive during the final stages of Descent, Approach and Landing.

For some odd reason the video recording has stutters in it but the actual flying is smooth, must the a clash between, my G-Sync monitor, FRAPS and YouTube.


Video cuts out on me at 4:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jannier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct-30-2015 at 7:25pm
I have no idea why that would be, try watching it direct on YouTube. Plays perfect here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote USN O6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct-30-2015 at 9:04pm
Video played perfectly for me.  I'll be posting some screenshots which show On Approach procedure.
Best,
Jim




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swagger897 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct-30-2015 at 9:35pm
Video played fine on youtube as well.

Something that makes me curious, when the landing gear was down, the cockpit sounds a lot louder (the ambient noise of the air disturbance) than normal, did the sounds get adjusted?

I know in a 767 it gets extremely loud up front, but just wasn't sure in a 747.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jannier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct-31-2015 at 2:40am
Nope the sound when the wheels are out was not changed, you should get the effect on your current product.
Sound cards, broken or outdated drivers, incorrectly used effects and driver and sound settings of the sound card can give wrong or partial sound.
Using wrong eq modes, dolby modes, special sound virtual effects modes, all this can interfere with getting the correct sounds to play.

Some years ago I ran into a similar issue, only partial sounds would play, turned out my DirectX was outdated, and i had some fancy gaming effect enabled on the sound cards config panel, that Flight-simulator X just did not like. Multi channel sound cards, with or without multiple speakers and the virtual effects and different sound options and modes can be daunting at times and break stuff. Oh and then also on-board sound chips have there own "plutora" of issues at times sharing resources, most often and very annoying clicking sounds, and mini momentarily pauses as the sound files triggers to play. on FS a noticeable one is when ATC talks, or on landing when wheels touch the runway.

Anyways do a advanced search in the registered support section, sure you will find many posts there to help and guide with sound setup issues.
Regards
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swagger897 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct-31-2015 at 11:52pm
It's not so much as something broken, I just don't recall it being that audible. I'll have to test it out again though when I get my hands on her.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agblesai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov-01-2015 at 2:41am
this is fantastic i would like to lean how to program, i'm learning hard, but can you send me a video tutorial how to program ILS in Fmc all those plane i have, can be easily input ils radio, but this is very real and fantastic. I'm putting my best. Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote USN O6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov-01-2015 at 7:32am
I see that Jannie has uploaded a video for you and posted it in the Radio thread you have in the Registered support section.
Best,
Jim




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agblesai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov-01-2015 at 8:32am
I'm very appreciate your effort and timely responds. Thank youClapClapClapClap 
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